Posts by Disillusioned JW

27

What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?

by Disillusioned JW in

even if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?

for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.

i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.

Disillusioned JW

Sea Breeze you made a number of good points regarding the position on war, but at least the JWs in Germany and Japan were not in the German and Japan armies. The JWs in those countries were not the enemies of the Allied military forces. Furthermore if you believe the Bible is true, then you believe that people faithful to Jesus and God will receive a resurrection to eternal life.

Regarding Cornelius, we don't know if he remained in active duty in the army after becoming a Christian. Regarding what the Bible says in Luke 22:36 keep in mind what the Bible says Jesus did when an apostle (Peter, a zealot) of Jesus used his sword to cut off the ear of the slave/servant of the high priest. Some people say Jesus used the words said at Luke 22:36 as a teaching example (such as to Peter) to later illustrate (at the time of the ear but cut off and then restored) that one should not use the sword. Keep also in the mind the words attributed to Jesus about he who fights by the sword shall die by the sword. The verses you used could also be used to argue that the Bible is contradictory in its message and thus not the word of God.

The Bible, such as in the book of Revelation, teaches that it is better for Christians to die as martyrs that to kill others (see the passages about the time of the antichrist and the beasts, and of those slain but who later go to heaven to rule with Christ).

Other than the JWs and the SDA (but the SDA might no be fully consistent in this matter0, I don't know of any Christian religion/denomination/sect with more than about 100,000 members worldwide that forbids its members to serve in armed combat. However Buddhism and Jainism are religions which are firmly against the taking of human life, even if it means that the their own members will be killed and tortured as a result in their present human life.

It takes courage in totalitarian countries (such as North Korea) to refuse military service, knowing you likely will be tortured and possibly executed as a result.

27

What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?

by Disillusioned JW in

even if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?

for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.

i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.

Disillusioned JW

It sure was nice that I was never exposed to tobacco smoke in the homes of any of my JW family members. It was also nice (at least since the year I was born) that smoking never took place inside a Kingdom Hall building.

27

What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?

by Disillusioned JW in

even if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?

for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.

i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.

Disillusioned JW

I agree that smoking and using illicit drugs is very bad for health, but I believe full Covid-19 vaccination for the vast majority of people is far more beneficial for them than harmful for them. I have received two full doses of Moderna's vaccination and I am glad for that, despite the discomfort I felt from both doses (especially from the latter dose).

83

Do You Think Trump Will Make A Comeback?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you think he could get reinstated as president?

do you think trump will run again for president or do you think he will just be a force for the republican party behind the scenes?.

Disillusioned JW

No (regarding him obtaining federal elected office), since he is in over his head with lawsuits against him and/or some of his organizations. I hope he never ever again becomes elected to government office in the USA!

27

What aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion?

by Disillusioned JW in

even if you disapprove of much about the wt and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the wt and/or its religion?

for me one of the things i view most favorably about the wt and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that jws never intentionally kill another human being.

i especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but i think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable.

Disillusioned JW

Even if you disapprove of much about the WT and/or its religion, what aspects do you view most favorably about the WT and/or its religion? For me one of the things I view most favorably about the WT and its religion is its extremely strong insistence that JWs never intentionally kill another human being. I especially appreciate that regarding those who have been born, but I think some abortions of human embryos might be justifiable. Another thing that I really appreciate about WT and its religion is their requirement that JWs must not join any military. The WT has created an organization consisting of millions of people who have those values. That is an impressive and very honorable feat.

41

Why dont practicing JWS cant accept the fact that the Watchtower Corporation is a commercialized false prophet ?

by Finkelstein in

to the majority of people who investigate the activities of the wts from its beginning history there were obvious false proclamations and doctrines propagated by the wts.. a matter of fact the wts produced a long list of literature that posted proclamations on the front cover and went into detail of things that were suppose to happen, from jesus returning changing the world in which we live and so on.. wonderful things one might say but not factual or either theologically correct .

.

Disillusioned JW

I just know (have intense conviction) that active JWs knew the WT was not selling the literature for a profit, thus it is shocking to me to that any person who had been an active JW would sincerely say the WT had been selling literature.

I've already stated my comments about whether or not I think past leaders of the WTS/JWs were false prophets (and regarding their intentions), and I thus see no reason to answer a question again about that matter.

41

Why dont practicing JWS cant accept the fact that the Watchtower Corporation is a commercialized false prophet ?

by Finkelstein in

to the majority of people who investigate the activities of the wts from its beginning history there were obvious false proclamations and doctrines propagated by the wts.. a matter of fact the wts produced a long list of literature that posted proclamations on the front cover and went into detail of things that were suppose to happen, from jesus returning changing the world in which we live and so on.. wonderful things one might say but not factual or either theologically correct .

.

Disillusioned JW

By the time (or shortly after) the WT started offering DVDs they had stopped asking for a specific contribution amount for them and all other items. [They still asked for contributions for them, for several years, but they had stopped stating a specific amount. Except, I remember one overseer (and/or a KM) saying when making a contribution to keep in mind how much similar products cost (namely those sold by for profit businesses).] Furthermore, cassette packages and DVDs have production costs. I don't specifically recall them being advertised on the back pages of WT literature, though I know that books were.

I have no disagreement with the accusations of "the pressure and deliberate persuasion of transferring over building and land Titles of Kingdom Halls", hence I did not say those accusations were false.

I don't bother to make posts about every action (bad or good) the WT does.

If by "on the fence about this religion" you mean I am not sure whether or not to stay out of the religion, you are wrong. I desire to never again become active in the religion. I am an atheist and I won't become a theist again (unless perhaps I loose my mind). If the religion ever ends its shunning policy of ex-JWs in regards to their JW family members, I will immediately officially disassociate from the religion. I see many flaws with the religion, but that doesn't mean I think there is nothing good about it. It also doesn't mean I think they are dishonest in everything they said, instead I see they were dishonest in many things and honest in many more things they said. If you mean I am hesitant to get rid of all of the WT literature I have, then in that respect you are correct. I appreciate some of their literature, to varying degrees, whereas I have extremely low appreciation for most of their other literature.

41

Why dont practicing JWS cant accept the fact that the Watchtower Corporation is a commercialized false prophet ?

by Finkelstein in

to the majority of people who investigate the activities of the wts from its beginning history there were obvious false proclamations and doctrines propagated by the wts.. a matter of fact the wts produced a long list of literature that posted proclamations on the front cover and went into detail of things that were suppose to happen, from jesus returning changing the world in which we live and so on.. wonderful things one might say but not factual or either theologically correct .

.

Disillusioned JW

Rocketman123 you sure do have a foul mouth, calling me an a***** - or should I say "foul hands" instead of "foul mouth" since you typed the word instead of spoke it.

Furthermore, that post you are referring to doesn't name you, but I guess you recognize the shoe fits you (figuratively speaking), since trying on the shoe (figuratively speaking). Prior to my post in this topic thread you hadn't even made a post in this topic thread, yet you felt I had singled you out. My comment of "How someone who had been a baptized JW could think the WT was about for-profit commercialism of literature is hard for me to comprehend" applies to anyone and everyone in that category, not exclusively you.

I joined the theocratic ministry school and gave my first Bible reading in the Kingdom Hall before the year 1975 (before age 10 and several years before I got baptized), thus I also became active in the WT religion a long time ago. I later had a subscription to the WT and the AW for several years. I obtained much literature and made contributions for them when obtaining the literature - but the literature was not sold to me. The contributions requested for the magazines and books were dirt cheap. The back of a 192-page book (United in Worship, for example) in the year 1983 only asked for a contribution of 75 cents for the 192-page books. That is a dirt cheap price - no room for a net profit to the WT for it. Yet you are saying I am ignorant on this matter. Good grief. In the Kingdom Hall I was a servant in charge of the magazine counter and the literature counter for a number of years. I am thus very aware of the WT asking contributions for the literature and how much was requested for them.

The literature was not SOLD by the WT, instead a contribution/donation was asked for them and usually obtained for them. That is an important distinction I am making. There is a difference between selling for profit as a commercial for-profit business and asking for contributions as a non-profit entity distributing items. You don't seem to see the distinction, but the WT clearly stated to the JWs that a contribution/donation was requested for them. The WT's Our Kingdom Ministry/Service even told publishers that householders could obtain the literature without giving money for it, if they sincerely said they couldn't afford it. (That was stated in at least one issue, and the last time I read it was only about a week ago). As a result, there were times when I gave the WT and AW issues to householders without obtaining a contribution pertaining to them for the WT Society. Yet, you claim to not know that policy, despite claiming to have been a JW. Eventually the WT religion (through JWs in the field) even stopped asking money when offering the literature. These examples show that literature was not being sold! Sometimes I met people (non-JWs) who said the WT/JWs sell literature, but told those people that is not true. I told them that instead a donation/contribution is asked for the items, but if people can't give the money they can still receive the items (at no charge). I also told them that the amount of the requested contribution doesn't produce any net profit, but rather only covers the cost (maybe not even the full cost) of producing the literature.

You won't succeed in intimidating me to get out of this site. I stand up to bullies who imitate the figurative 'father of lies'. Truth is important to me and I hate lies. I thus speak out (and write against) lies, including malicious lies about the WT.

156

Remembering Rutherford

by Sea Breeze in

he seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.

rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.

[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .

Disillusioned JW

On page 10 of this message topic thread I said "As a result I now believe that the WT, despite being registered as a nonprofit, is commercialized." But now I again say the WT is not commercialized and that I was in error for briefly giving into the idea that the WT is commercialized.

Rocketman123 was incorrect in saying that the "... WTS sold its literature to the public, such as yearly subscriptions to magazines, books, cassette tapes, dvds ..." . Likewise others were incorrect in saying similar things. Though the WT listed a monetary amount for those items and requested donations/contributions for them, they were not selling those items. That is a crucial distinction that needs to be made.

The Qualified to Be Ministers book (1955 edition) on page 354 in paragraph 5 says "The Society is nonprofit and noncommercial ....". I came across statement about two days ago without looking for such a statement (instead I was looking for more information about the WT's history). The WT hasn't sold literature but instead asked for donations/contributions. The donations/contributions that were directly received for literature didn't cover the cost of producing the literature. Furthermore people in the field could obtain the literature without making the contribution, and eventually the WT (and JWs in the field ministry) even stopping asking for contributions in association with offerings of literature. The contribution amounts, such as 75 cents for a 192-page book in 1983, were dirt cheap. It is clear to me that the WT is not about for-profit commercialism of literature, however I have wondered why they produced so many different books, considering that the general message of so many of the books is basically the same. Maybe the main reason for so many different books is to keep the JWs excited about the religion and to keep them reading the literature, as well as attract more people to the religion (by keeping the literature exciting)

41

Why dont practicing JWS cant accept the fact that the Watchtower Corporation is a commercialized false prophet ?

by Finkelstein in

to the majority of people who investigate the activities of the wts from its beginning history there were obvious false proclamations and doctrines propagated by the wts.. a matter of fact the wts produced a long list of literature that posted proclamations on the front cover and went into detail of things that were suppose to happen, from jesus returning changing the world in which we live and so on.. wonderful things one might say but not factual or either theologically correct .

.

Disillusioned JW

The Qualified to Be Ministers book (1955 edition) on page 354 in paragraph 5 says "The Society is nonprofit and noncommercial ....". They don't sell literature but instead asked for donations. The donations that were directly received for literature don't cover the cost of producing the literature. The donation amounts such as 75 cents for a 192-page book in 1983 were dirt cheap. How someone who had been a baptized JW could think the WT was about for-profit commercialism of literature is hard for me to comprehend.